Today I am posting some questions that are being raised by someone on my friends list. I am making it available here for those who may have some of the same questions. I will be completing the answers over the next few days. I hope you all find this of interest and may it lead you all to a deeper understanding of the Scriptures and why you believe the way you do. Most of all I trust it will lead you to allowing the Scriptures to speak for themselves and you will question the doctrines of your church while you hold them up to the refinement of the Scriptures.
Friend 1:
Mike, I wanted to consult some friends of mine before I fully replied to your comment "churches are sinning because they don't keep the Sabboth."
Mark chapters 2 & 3 say that Christ fulfilled the Sabboth as well as ALL the other requirements of the Mosaic Law.
Hebrews 7 goes on to explain that believers are under a NEW LAW with Christ's Priesthood.
Romans 7 is very clear on how believers are completely and utterly DEAD to the Mosaic Law.
Was Christ sinning because He didn't keep the Sabboth?
Were the Apostles sinning because they didn't keep the Sabboth?
Regarding the post you shared about Constantine, he tried, but was not able to burn all the manuscripts. The University of Michigan library has an original partial manuscript from the 2nd. century A.D.
I believe the translators of the Bible we have today were very careful to hide and preserve the original texts, so that God's complete and inerrant Word could be passed down to all generations.
Friend 2.
Keeping the sabbath...
God told Israel that the sabbath was to be kept thru the ages.
Jesus came with his disciples and said he was the Lord of the Sabbath. He said it was ok to do good on the Sabbath. I don't remember many times in the word that Jesus chose to be idle on the sabbath, rather he diligently did his work on the Sabbath usually at the disgust of those who were respected as leaders.
That is not to say that he didn't spend the time with fellowship with the Father which was the main point of the Sabbath.
I believe Jesus completed and fulfilled the law concerning the requirement for the need for blood to receive forgiveness when He, being God in the Flesh and the perfect being, went to the cross for our benefit. Belief in this concept is a requirement for being a follower of Christ. That being said Jesus gave us instruction in love and forgiveness
God told Israel that the sabbath was to be kept thru the ages.
Jesus came with his disciples and said he was the Lord of the Sabbath. He said it was ok to do good on the Sabbath. I don't remember many times in the word that Jesus chose to be idle on the sabbath, rather he diligently did his work on the Sabbath usually at the disgust of those who were respected as leaders.
That is not to say that he didn't spend the time with fellowship with the Father which was the main point of the Sabbath.
I believe Jesus completed and fulfilled the law concerning the requirement for the need for blood to receive forgiveness when He, being God in the Flesh and the perfect being, went to the cross for our benefit. Belief in this concept is a requirement for being a follower of Christ. That being said Jesus gave us instruction in love and forgiveness
Mike:
OK,Lets start with some common ground. The Scriptures in the original is the inerrant Word of Elohim (God). Paul said in 2Ti 3:14 But you, stay in what you have learned and trusted, having known from whom you have learned,
2Ti 3:15 and that from a babe you have known the Set-apart Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for deliverance through belief in Messiah יהושע.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed by Elohim and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for setting straight, for instruction in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of Elohim might be fitted, equipped for every good work. The Scriptures at the time of Paul's writing this letter did not consist of the NT. Just the OT. So, we have the OT and the NT. In the original languages it is inerrant. Any time you translate from one language to another there are things lost in the translation. It is just the way languages work. You can ask any Biblical translator. For instance. Isa 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together,” says יהוה. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool. There are places in this world where there are people who have no idea what snow is. The translators found something that could take the place of snow the people would be understand but yet still not change the understanding and meaning of the passage. So yes, we have a set of 66 books making up the Scriptures that are trustworthy. They must also be handled with care. In understanding the Scriptures there are 2 main tenants. 1. Scripture interprets Scripture. 2. There are no inconsistencies in Scripture. Where there seems to be an inconsistency or a seeming contradiction it is in the interpretation not in the Scriptures.
2Ti 3:15 and that from a babe you have known the Set-apart Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for deliverance through belief in Messiah יהושע.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed by Elohim and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for setting straight, for instruction in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of Elohim might be fitted, equipped for every good work. The Scriptures at the time of Paul's writing this letter did not consist of the NT. Just the OT. So, we have the OT and the NT. In the original languages it is inerrant. Any time you translate from one language to another there are things lost in the translation. It is just the way languages work. You can ask any Biblical translator. For instance. Isa 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together,” says יהוה. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool. There are places in this world where there are people who have no idea what snow is. The translators found something that could take the place of snow the people would be understand but yet still not change the understanding and meaning of the passage. So yes, we have a set of 66 books making up the Scriptures that are trustworthy. They must also be handled with care. In understanding the Scriptures there are 2 main tenants. 1. Scripture interprets Scripture. 2. There are no inconsistencies in Scripture. Where there seems to be an inconsistency or a seeming contradiction it is in the interpretation not in the Scriptures.
Now, for how to understand the Word of Elohim I am going to put something here I found on line today that sums it up well. THE FOUNDATION OF OUR FAITH
This is a very good image showing the authority of scripture from the foundation up.
The Torah is the foundation
The writings and Prophets must be understood from the Torah
The Gospels must be understood from the Torah, Writings and Prophets
The epistles must be understood from the Torah, Writings, Prophets and the Gospels.
The epistles do not replace or trump the TeNaKH (O.T.); they depend fully on it. Yeshua/Jesus did not come preaching a new Gospel; he came fulfilling (accomplishing) the promises found in the TeNaKh regarding the Gospel. The Apostles did not begin a new religion; they did not sit down to write scripture; and they certainly had no authority to alter the already revealed word of YaHWeH. The Apostolic writings (N.T.) is perfect because it agrees with the TeNaKh (O.T.) which is perfect; the Apostles speak with authority because they stand in agreement with what was previously spoken and written. All later revelation and or scripture stands or falls on the foundation of scripture - the Torah.
Don't build your house upside down!
The Torah Thumper
Image designed by: Paul Todd
I will share this image on my page in awhile
This is a very good image showing the authority of scripture from the foundation up.
The Torah is the foundation
The writings and Prophets must be understood from the Torah
The Gospels must be understood from the Torah, Writings and Prophets
The epistles must be understood from the Torah, Writings, Prophets and the Gospels.
The epistles do not replace or trump the TeNaKH (O.T.); they depend fully on it. Yeshua/Jesus did not come preaching a new Gospel; he came fulfilling (accomplishing) the promises found in the TeNaKh regarding the Gospel. The Apostles did not begin a new religion; they did not sit down to write scripture; and they certainly had no authority to alter the already revealed word of YaHWeH. The Apostolic writings (N.T.) is perfect because it agrees with the TeNaKh (O.T.) which is perfect; the Apostles speak with authority because they stand in agreement with what was previously spoken and written. All later revelation and or scripture stands or falls on the foundation of scripture - the Torah.
Don't build your house upside down!
The Torah Thumper
Image designed by: Paul Todd
I will share this image on my page in awhile
Friend 2: Ok. Jesus did not write a new gospel but he did change the way it affects our ability to worship in a way that pleases God. In fact God himself came in the Flesh and did so to show us the way. He did fulfill the promises listed in the prophets and He taught the apostles. Then he sent the Spirit to be with us, also God in the Heavenly Form
Mike: Now, with that foundation established. You say the Messiah and apostles did not keep the Sabbath. Your salvation is at stake with that statement. If the Messiah did not keep the Sabbath then He was not without sin. You see Scripture defines sin for us in 1Jn 3:4 Everyone doing sin also does lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. The King James Version says it is the transgression of the law. In order for the messiah to be the perfect lamb of Elohim which takes away the sin of the world he would have had to observe the 7th day Sabbath. This is the 4th command. As a side note, if Messiah was the Word of Elohim in the flesh, then He would be keeping it as well. Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. Also the testimony of the Messiah himself say He kept all the Father's commands. Joh 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. So, what are the commands of the Messiah? They would have to be the exact same ones as the Father as Messiah was the Word.
The Apostles understood this and also were in observance of it. Where the seeming contradiction comes in is with the argument with the Pharisees. They accused Him of breaking the sabbath because He was not observing the man made additions to the law. That was the messiah's whole problem with the Pharisees. There is a whole list of Scriptures where the apostles kept the Sabbath. Act 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Act 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. Please also note Stephen and Messiah were falsely accused of breaking the law. If it was a false accusation then it means they were keeping the law. Act 6:13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
Act 6:14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.
Now, all that being said, who is to be our example? Paul says to be followers of him just as he is following Messiah 1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. As it is getting late I will continue to answer more tomorrow.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. Also the testimony of the Messiah himself say He kept all the Father's commands. Joh 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. So, what are the commands of the Messiah? They would have to be the exact same ones as the Father as Messiah was the Word.
The Apostles understood this and also were in observance of it. Where the seeming contradiction comes in is with the argument with the Pharisees. They accused Him of breaking the sabbath because He was not observing the man made additions to the law. That was the messiah's whole problem with the Pharisees. There is a whole list of Scriptures where the apostles kept the Sabbath. Act 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Act 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. Please also note Stephen and Messiah were falsely accused of breaking the law. If it was a false accusation then it means they were keeping the law. Act 6:13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
Act 6:14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us.
Now, all that being said, who is to be our example? Paul says to be followers of him just as he is following Messiah 1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. As it is getting late I will continue to answer more tomorrow.
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